Saturday, January 10, 2015

Personal gripe

Twitter fans likely are aware of the whole donate-button-gate-scandal-thingy already, but for those who are not, here is a news story from the CBC on the issue

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/donate-button-deleted-on-harper-and-trudeau-anti-terrorism-message-1.2895753

Anyway, during this I made a tweet.


For this, I was blocked by Marc Garneau.



I'm not looking to be unblocked, frankly people who block others for stupid things like this are not people I want to be regularly conversing with, but rather I wanted to use this opportunity to show exactly what "Partisanship" looks like.

I'll leave the remainder to your own judgement. Feel free to comment, but I will say that while I am here to respond, Mr. Garneau is likely not even aware of this post, and so will say simply that personal attacks against him will be deleted.

20 comments:

  1. I'd like to say "I cannot believe" Garneau blocked you for this trifling (but accurate) comment, but his actions are so believable with today's thin-skinned politicians. To label him a "tool" is being far too generous. A candidate could lose my vote for such a move.

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    1. I'm more upset with the idea that one of the highest ranking MPs in the party could be so partisan.

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    2. In fairness to Mr. Garneau, he doesn't have to respond to you and maybe didn't like the tone you used (such as a "tone" is over Twitter). Plus, why wouldn't a high ranking MP be partisan?

      Also, Garneau follows me on Twitter so it is possible he saw this.

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    3. My tone, when he accused the tories of being "crass" for doing what his own party does? Good god, if that is the reason, he is an idiot.

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  2. This type of hypocrisy is why I left the Liberal party some years ago. I find nothing wrong with drawing attention that a political party is opposed to Islamic radicalisation. Is it crass to try and engineer donations from this position? Probably but, if so, that should be the criticism: the ad was in poor taste. To critique others on this issue is insulting. M. Garneau should think long and hard about what freedom of speech entails.

    Liberal policy positions have become so vacuous even they don't know what they stand for. It is why I think they will be badly defeated come the next election.

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    1. Frankly, I'm getting close to leaving as well. Garneau was frankly crass in his tweet, my "attitude" was a step DOWN not up. Arrogant is when you act like an ass and you are correct, acting like an ass when you don't know what the hell you are talking about is a whole different thing. If that is the kind of party we want, one full of loud-mouth hypocrites, then that's certainly not a party I want to belong to.

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    2. There are plenty of unlikeable people within all parties; the fact that you leave because of one speaks more of you than it does them. Its not important that you like the people, but it is important if you share the values we're all aiming to promote.

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    3. Also, bede, "freedom of speech" does not mean he has to listen, it just means you have a right to say something. Mr. Garneau nor the Liberals have stopped Teddy from saying anything, as this blog post demonstrates.

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    4. Wait a minute Kyle, Mr. Garneau is not listening-we can agree on that! Unlike a private individual Mr. Garneau is required to listen-it's his job! What he is not required to do is agree with others' opinions. One would hope that the tragic events of last week would remind people (Mr. Garneau included) of the importance of allowing peaceful public disagreement. That whether one agrees or not the act of speech even if it be contrary to one's opinions or beliefs is what is important. All this incident proves is that either Garneau does not understand the lessons of last week or he is thin skinned.

      Secondly, I didn't leave the Liberal party because of individuals but, due to hypocrisy among Liberals. You can't intone you believe in free speech then deny others the right to communicate with their public officials! Those are poor manners when you are an elected politician.

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    5. So you're telling me Mr. Garneau, or any elected politician, cannot block people from their personal Twitter accounts if they feel someone is being rude and/or trolly? We're talking about social media, not Garneau's direct e-mail and phone line, and we're talking about Teddy going on about a partisan issue, not a real issue - I'm sorry, but I don't condemn Garneau for blocking Teddy or anyone he feels is being disruptive, if it even was Garneau and not one of his staffers. I would personally handle the issue better, but that's me.

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    6. FTR I would not leave because of people I don't care for. I'd leave because the only way you could think I was in the wrong is if you are a partisan. Garneau is free to block me. People are even free to feel that I was somehow more "crass" than Garneau, but feeling that way, frankly, in my opinion, speaks to the judgement of such people.

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  3. Kyle you and Teddy seem like nice guys but, I hope you realise that the Liberal party is all about people like Marc Garneau, wealthy individuals determined to gain power for themselves and their clique. The Liberal party has no intention of improving the lives of Canadians beyond the Westmount-Outremon-Rosedale-Shaughnessy family compact that run the party and much of Canada. I don't mean to insinuate Liberals are bad people, Liberals are good people like other Canadians but, they have specific interests and if the interest of poor Canadians or the Maritimes or the environment conflict then they simply will not side with them. It makes the Liberal party selfish not selfless. It's why its' leader is a scion of privilege not a self-made man,like the leader before him and the leader before him. It's why Trudeau has a Senate reform plan that entrenches privilege and the status quo instead of increasing democracy and it is why the Liberal party relies on past successes instead of new ideas.

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    1. You cannot say in the same breath Liberals are about selfish asshats who only care about their clique but Liberals are good people like any other Canadian - I mean, come on.

      I could go into several paragraphs about all the counter-examples I've seen and been personally involved with that disprove everything you've said, at least at an anecdotal level, but I won't - we'll agree to disagree and leave it here because if you've had bad experiences, and I've had good ones, then we're just going to be at an impasse. If you feel the Conservatives or New Democrats or whoever are more caring, or no one, you go on ahead friend.

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    2. The Liberals are a big-tent party. If I was convinced that the party was "all about" people like Garneau and Karigiannis, and MacAulay, I would have left already. I am not convinced of that.

      For the record, the reason I left both the Conservatives and the NDP was not official policy, and not because of the actions of the top leaders; but rather, my disgust with regular every-day members.

      So far, I've not had the same disgust with regular every-day Liberals.

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  4. FTR, I find the suggestion that I was somehow "more rude/crass/bad/etc" than Garneau to be far far more offensive than being blocked by Garneau. I'd also strongly contest that I was"equally as offensive/bitchy/etc" as Garneau.

    I do not see how my response can be seen as anything except a step down. If you disagree, please feel free to try to convince me.

    I don't really care that much about Garneau; the point of this post was to outline how Partisanship looks in action.

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  5. I'm not a member of the Twitterverse (as much of a long winded blowhard as I am, gee, what a shock, eh) nor have much interest in ever being so, but I'm given to understand that it tends to among other things inflame emotions a lot all around. Personally, I don't see why Garneau or his staff decided to take that action, it seems a bit much to me given what you said, but given how hyper-partisan the political landscape has become in the Harperium and even in non-election years now that we have started an election year it may well be we see more of this knee-jerk thinking because the environment simply has gotten that toxic.

    I agree it doesn't look good, but I also feel that given just how bad the reality of our situation in Ottawa has become under the Harper regime that this is truly a minor level misbehaviour on all accounts, and if this is the level at which people make their political decisions it is no wonder Harper is where he is, and worse may get to stay there for longer than this year. This last btw is not aimed at Teddy so much as it is a broader comment at many online commentators I've seen willing to diss a party, usually the Libs but not always, for reasons such as these instead of little things like the destruction of our democratic infrastructure, major policy grounds both foreign and domestic, you know what some of us used to see as serious issues that we are supposed to be placing in the forefront when we consider our political options.

    TNT:

    As to what/how you should respond, I do not know, I just know that I agree it seems an overreaction to have blocked you on that basis alone, whoever did it. I am glad to hear that it is not enough to make you leave the Libs or such, but I am even more pleased to hear why you haven't while you have other parties, I find your reasoning very understandable on that score. Not being a member/partisan of any of the parties but an involved political person for several decades now I tend to have an awareness of the pros and cons to all major parties both in terms of politics/policies and in terms of membership and those they attract as fans/cheerleaders/partisans. For better or worse I find the Libs (except when the have been a government too long) the most broad minded and accepting, and for me least ideological in nature as I tend to be distrustful of ideologies because of their vulnerability to extremism, but they also tend to be vulnerable to a bit of arrogance because of their tendency to form government for so much of our history, and perhaps that is what we see here, which given their current third party status is something they really need to deal with.

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    1. "I tend to have an awareness of the pros and cons to all major parties" This is something I wish more people said. One thing I constantly harp on is that all parties have good people and bad people and all parties have good ideas and bad ideas. As a card carrying Liberal, I feel I should put a bit more focus when pointing out the flaws in my own party, so that people know I am not a trained seal mindlessly saying the Liberals are good.

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    2. Thank you. I was raised with the idea that not just being a voter but an informed voter was important, and how can one make an informed choice in each election if one does not have some understanding of the main parties to choose between? I've never assumed any party would be one I would be in total agreement with for the very reason you noted in your reply, for me it is what ideas are, what aren't, how they deal with the bad ones once it becomes obvious, that sort of thing. These days the political environs look quite bleak to me, little over a decade ago I had four parties I could shift my vote to depending on the context of the election of the day, these days I am down to two and only one in the current context when it comes to what has always been my top priority, stopping Harper, because he was and still is so alien to our entire political culture and history not just from Dipper and Lib sides but also Red Tory/Progressive Conservative as well.

      When you come a family that has long political roots between the PCPCs and Libs with a smattering of Dipper thrown in, you have to be willing to understand the basis for each party, at least it feels that way to me, which is also why I get so tired of people assuming/declaring me a partisan of any leader/party, as I have only ever joined any political party once for one year, and that was to aid in the nomination of a local candidate to run who was a friend who I thought was well suited for the job (which she did get, won in the next election, and made cabinet even) because I prefer to retain my position as a swing uncommitted voter rather than be bound to any party, even when in times like this I feel like I am essentially reduced to one choice to achieve my primary political aim, which is of course the removal of Harper from PMO.

      I do not claim great expertise within each party of course, but really, how can one claim to be an informed voter even as a member of a party if one does not have some understanding of the other options out there, as well as understanding that the entire political spectrum is a much richer and more nuanced reality that it seems for so many, especially those on the far ends of it seeing every to the other side of them as one blob in total, as too many from the political right do unable to distinguish between Libs and Dippers, and Dippers unable to see any difference between Lib and CPC, despite there clearly being massive differences in both, although I do think the divergence is wider in the latter than the former. After all, how can one even as a party loyalist convince those unaligned to side with you if you cannot demonstrate a basic understand of reality? At least that was the school of thought I was raised in, it seems to have become a bit old fashioned these days to think this way, but I am not going to change.

      I never allow myself to forget political parties are generally made up and led by human beings genuinely convinced they are doing what is best for us all. Indeed, one of the reasons I am so anti-Harper is that he is the first party leader I have ever seen in our context that assumes everyone else isn't just an honouable opponent who has honourable intentions even if ones he disagrees with but are instead enemies to be destroyed utterly, completely, and by any and all means. That kind of thinking is inherently corrosive beyond measure, especially in a system and society such as Canada, and that was one of my core reasons for being so utterly opposed to him (one of the others of course was the threat on process issues and abuse of power issues I saw coming with him).

      In any event, I like you wish more people would be more politically involved and informed whatever they eventually choose in voting, it would make it far harder for any scammers to gain/hold power, and that in itself is in my view an important and worthy goal in its own right.

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    3. Thank you for your contribution, Scotian.

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