Saturday, December 15, 2012

Gun Nuts, People, and God

I get that there are people out there that I have major disagreements with. "Gun nuts," or those that are going to be around talking about how if every teacher in that school had a gun, this wouldn't have happened - they're at the top of that list.

Rest assured, there will be those people out there. I used to debate some of them online for a bit, before I got sick of the irrational generalizations and reasoning used. It was like all empathy had been drained of people that are otherwise probably very pleasant to be around. Its like this one issue is accessed in a portioned-off part of their brain, where feelings of empathy and concern for the welfare of others is completely skewed, or non-existent.

A lot of this I blame on the polarizing debate surrounding guns in America, and to a lesser extent, up here. Such extreme positions are taken by both sides that people, when defending either side, feel the need to step into another person's skin. In order to rise to the level of discourse - or lower themselves, depending upon your view - they can't take their everyday personalities along with them. The person who debates guns, and I do say this about either side, they're like what the regular person's personality would be if you took a few data points - fear of safety for their family, individual rights, the liking of loud noises and shooting things - and modified them to their extreme conclusions. A shadow of their usual lives, that only comes out when this debate is forced to come out at the same time.

Warren Kinsella, of course, has said clearly that he hates these people. Fair enough. But I propose that instead of maybe hating people outright, we try to understand why they think like they do on these subjects. "Gun nuts" are people to, and unless they're total sociopaths - not ruling that out for some - they have justified their positions somehow in their minds. The key to bringing the discourse back to a reasonable level is understanding how it got so out of hand in the first place. Unfortunately I don't see that coming from people like Kinsella. That is a problem. We're not going to win them over by calling them names.

Maybe we can start with this fact. All individuals of whatever ideology must come to terms that having a rapid-firing assault rifle is designed for one purpose, and one purpose only - killing other human beings. I don't know why the mother of Adam Lanza, a teacher, bought and kept those weapons, but I do know that Adam put them to their intended use. They're designed to kill, simple as that.

Surely, that is something we can agree on?

Moving on, though, Mike Huckabee, the former Arizona Governor and presidential candidate, said this was because of "God" being taken out of school - he and his ilk also very near the top of the list of people I cannot stand.

I'm an atheist, so such nonsense makes very little sense to me. However, not everyone is me - but surely, surely they can see that blaming God being taken out of the education system, the very first thing you say, is immoral and wrong. Immoral and wrong to such a degree that the idea of ever electing someone like Huckabee would be paramount to putting Osama Bin Laden in the White House.

In fact, if someone like, I don't know, Iran's president said the same thing - total, utter condemnation would come from the United States. A formerly high elected official and possible contender for the President's office in the future says it, and Fox's ratings go up.

What the hell is right about that situation. You tell me.

5 comments:

  1. "the idea of ever electing someone like Huckabee would be paramount to putting Osama Bin Laden in the White House."

    A somewhat misguided elected representative who gives to charity and writes childrens books is somehow equivalent to a mass killer and terrorist organizer.

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    1. Have you read his children's books? There's some scary stuff in there.

      The fact remains though that, while sure, I took some creative liberties there, Huckabee is JUST as much of a fundamentalist as Bin Laden was. I had a certain amount of respect for Mike too, as he had some voice of reason - then he said what he said, and unless he retracts it and comes up with a less volatile and stupid position, he lives with it. As does my description of him in this post.

      Its like if you were debating a gun nut, and said nut said something very out of line, past the point of it being something justifiable. There is a limit one can take, and unless there is a correction, there's no point in being cordial.

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    2. Maybe we can start with this fact. All individuals of whatever ideology must come to terms that having a rapid-firing assault rifle is designed for one purpose, and one purpose only - killing other human beings. I don't know why the mother of Adam Lanza, a teacher, bought and kept those weapons, but I do know that Adam put them to their intended use. They're designed to kill, simple as that.

      There's the problem: Your "facts" are incorrect. These are not the super special human killing rifles you see in video games or movies. These are small caliber rifles dressed up in light weight plastic and ergonomic features. At .223 they are much less powerful than .308 or 7.62mm rounds. As for use, these rifles are used extensively for hunting in those fly-over states. They are especially useful for gophers and coyotes, but not so much for deer. These "killing" machines just aren't powerful enough for deer. The fact is your fear of these rifles is not rational and the average non-gun nut's preconceptions are incorrect.

      As for when the debate went off the rails I suspect it started when guys on your side of the debate started stealing our property and destroying it without any compensation. That would tend to polarize a "debate". You guys like to equate guns and cars so imagine it's like what would happen if Greens got a majority and banned all V8 vehicles, seized them, and destroyed them without a penny in compensation. How reasonable do you think owners of 6 cylinder vehicles would be when Greens talked about how they don't need that much power?

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    3. Ah, yes, how stupid of me! How could I forget that you need military-grade semi-automatic rifles to shoot GOPHERS.

      Are you listening to yourself, or just plugging your ears saying "nahnahnah." I'm not a post-modernist, I don't believe in subjective reality, but hell if you're not a good example of it.

      C'mon, dude. He used a carbine rifle, military weaponry that was designed to kill people. That is what its purpose is. It wasn't designed with bloody GOPHERS in mind. If people use an AR-15 for hunting, then they need to learn what the word "overkill" means, because that is ridiculous. There are easier ways to kill gophers that doesn't require the ability to put dozens of bullets in the animal in a space of a few seconds.

      I also don't recall having a "fear of rifles." I don't recall ever showing I have a fear of rifles - though I suspect if there was a rifle pointed at me, especially one that several major military rifle models are based off of, maybe I would indeed be afraid. I suspect you would be too. I suspect the children killed by Adam Lanza were also afraid.

      But maybe they were part of the problem, right - I assume they, and their parents, are apart of the problem to you. After all, they would oppose Lanza having such weaponry, especially pointed at them. You seem all gung-ho for it, though. Maybe you just think Lanza thought they were gophers or something.

      The rest of what you're blabbering on about - yeah, I think people have a valid point if they get angry that they lose their property. Hell, I'd be angry. Maybe there should be compensation, I wouldn't be opposed to that. What I am opposed to, though, is someone like you, who justifies having military weaponry for hunting GOPHERS.

      Lol. I can't get over that. Just, lol. Gophers.

      Don't comment again, please.

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  2. And there you have your answer as to why there can be no discussion...

    And don't worry, I won't comment again. No point explaining firearms to someone who doesn't own any but is sure he knows it all.

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