Tuesday, February 15, 2011

"Oda made right Kairos move: Harper"

Yep, you heard it from the horse's mouth directly: Bev Oda was right to defuned KAIROS. But, Mr. Harper, aren't you missing the whole entire point here?

Don't get me wrong, I know why KAIROS had its funding cut, I can even agree slightly with the premise behind it - but not the lying. Not the alteration of a document after it was signed. That's called fraud, Prime Minister. Can you say that? Fraud?

Better yet, let's take something out of context (something the Conservatives never do) and assume that not only does Harper approve of Oda defunding KAIROS, he seems to have no problem with the fact that she altered a document signed by other parties that did not agree to those alterations, thereby committing fraud, and then the subsequent lies she told to a parliamentary committee. After all, I hear no objections from him yet. I see no movements to do anything about it. What can one assume?

If this Prime Minister had one ethical bone in his body he would ask for Oda's immediate resignation. Just one. But, alas, here we are - Harper praising Oda's bold moves. What the hell is wrong with this government?

9 comments:

  1. "What the hell is wrong with this government?"

    Where would you like me to start?

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  2. At dinner, I said to my husband,did you ever experience a Prime minister so bad as Harper. He said not really and I said Mulroney was a saint compared to Harper, and you know how he turned out..Agreed .One of these times, the young ones will be on the streets here if Harper ever gets a Majority...god help us all
    I agree about Oda, and Harper knew all about it.

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  3. It's not even close to being 'fraud', sorry.

    Fraud is defined as "deliberate misrepresentation which causes another person to suffer damages (usually monetary)" or "intentional deception made for personal gain". Nowhere near what happened here, since the Minister was not required to act on (or even consider, for the matter) the recommendations given to her. It was 100% HER decision whether to act on this information or ignore it. No one suffered damages, no one personally gained anything by her insertion of a comically large arrow and 'NOT' into this glorified memo. If this was an attempt to deceive someone (although I can't think of a single reason why or a single person who might be adversely affected) it was the most clumsy and painfully obvious one in history...

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  4. Fred from B.C. argues that no one was harmed by Oda's deception. I think, given her lying, that CIDA's reputation was harmed, given that her earlier misrepresentations suggested that it was a CIDA staff recommendation to defund KAIROs.

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  5. A woman who has Fred from BC defend herself is a fool of a client.

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  6. There's not much more I can say to this little mini-convo. But, yeah, I agree.

    Except of course with Fred from BC. And how is it not fraud? If I get you to sign something that says you'll do one thing, but then I alter it - without your knowledge or permission - to say another, how is that not fraud?

    Put it in easier terms: if you sign a cheque of $500 to give to me, and I then alter it to say you're actually planning on giving me $1,000, would that not be fraud?

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  7. Except of course with Fred from BC. And how is it not fraud? If I get you to sign something that says you'll do one thing, but then I alter it - without your knowledge or permission - to say another, how is that not fraud?


    Depends on what it was, what was promised, what was delivered and (most importantly) who, if anyone, suffered harm. In this case, an internal memo is not a legal document and not binding on the Minister or anyone who signed it (which wasn't, it turns out, the Minister herself; she was out of the country at the time). Didn't I explain this well enough the first time? the only definition of 'fraud' worth considering is the legal definition...and this clearly doesn't qualify.



    Put it in easier terms: if you sign a cheque of $500 to give to me, and I then alter it to say you're actually planning on giving me $1,000, would that not be fraud?


    Absolutely, yes (monetary harm, criminal intent). But that's exactly the opposite of the Bev Oda internal memo (non)issue...

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  8. That's BS, dude, and you know it. Oda's alteration changed the intent of what both the CIDA head and the other signatory intended, thereby implicating them in agreement to the decision to cut KAIROS funding - when they didn't agree to it at all. And then Oda lied about altering the document.

    I don't know if it was completely illegal, and frankly at this point, I don't care. But there's a very, very serious moral issue there whereby a minister can fraudulently claim that these people agreed with her when they did the exact opposite, thereby defunding an entire organization of money that it thought it was getting. There was harm, there was a clear intent to violate at the very least the spirit of fraud laws, and plainly put, it's just bloody fraud. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

    I'm not saying Bev Oda needs to be arrested, but she should resign. Unless you think that it's completely A-OK to do. Please tell me if that's so, I really want to delve deeper into this moral gap that seems to have shown up in your life.

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  9. Volkov said...

    That's BS, dude, and you know it. Oda's alteration changed the intent of what both the CIDA head and the other signatory intended, thereby implicating them in agreement to the decision to cut KAIROS funding - when they didn't agree to it at all.

    (sigh...)


    They didn't HAVE TO agree with it. It wasn't their decision to make, it was Bev Oda's. They had no say in the matter other than making a recommendation (that would not be seen by anyone anyway, since this was an internal memo and not, as some have suggested, an 'official government document'.


    And then Oda lied about altering the document.


    Wrong again. She 'lied' about nothing. She said, when asked, that she didn't know who altered the document...which was quite true (she was out of the country at the time, two years prior to the question).


    I don't know if it was completely illegal, and frankly at this point, I don't care.


    So you withdraw your silly accusation of 'fraud', then? Very wise.


    But there's a very, very serious moral issue there whereby a minister can fraudulently claim that these people agreed with her when they did the exact opposite,


    Ummm...no, she never tried to claim that.



    thereby defunding an entire organization of money that it thought it was getting.


    KAIROS doesn't deserve one dime of government funding. Hatemongers don't qualify any more (unlike previous Liberal governments).


    There was harm, there was a clear intent to violate at the very least the spirit of fraud laws, and plainly put, it's just bloody fraud. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.


    Good thing you're not trying to pass yourself off as a lawyer.


    I'm not saying Bev Oda needs to be arrested, but she should resign. Unless you think that it's completely A-OK to do. Please tell me if that's so, I really want to delve deeper into this moral gap that seems to have shown up in your life.


    I've already given you a few of my reasons (and there are many more out there on other blogs). As for 'morals'...having a Liberal lecture anyone else on 'morals' is the very definition of irony...

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